Kamala Harris somehow manages to reflect both deep resignation and unbridled hope in her first significant post-election interview, on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert. Harris’ disappointment and disillusionment with the election—and the electorate—is palpable. Ostensibly on the show to pitch her new book, 107 Days, the interview felt akin to the first tentative steps of (very public) therapy, with moments of catharsis—brief, measured, but evident. I got the sense Harris is still emotionally raw from her experience—and understandably so. I think she has a lot to get off her chest, and this was her initial foray.

The moment that captured my attention came early in the interview. After Colbert asked if foregoing a run for governor of California is to “save herself for a different office,” she made it clear that “it’s more basic than that,” flatly stating:

I don’t want to go back in the system. I think it’s broken.

I—and the audience—gasped. It’s a stinging indictment. Even Colbert appeared taken aback, calling it “harrowing”—to which Harris quietly responds:

Well, but it’s also evident, isn’t it?

It’s quite evident to anyone paying even trivial attention—and not completely consumed by the MAGA cult.

Harris makes it clear her decision is not about giving up, that she’s “always gonna be part of the fight,” her goal being to “remind everyone who needs reminding right now of their power.”

The entire interview is terrific, including a moment toward the end when Harris acknowledges that, while she predicted much of what a Trump regime would bring, she could not predict “the capitulation” of “the guardians of our systems and our democracy.” Harris is unable to disguise her disgust for those supposed “guardians,” some of whom she calls “feckless.” Her anger is unmistakable.

Our civic discourse desperately needs more of Harris’ clear-eyed, righteous anger—and less apathetic acquiescence. I’m hopeful that her “listening tour” will spark other leaders to speak out. America needs a reckoning—and it can’t come quickly enough.